John KRENG

Asian American Stunt and Fight Coordinator

Author of Fight Choreography: The Art of Non‐Verbal Dialogue

Interviewed by Aurelien Henry OBAMA

Shiai Magazine: Hello John KRENG welcome to Shiai Magazine, most people are fascinated about Martial arts world champions and martial arts film stars. Can you give us more information about your life?

John KRENG: When I was growing up in Bethesda, Maryland, it was a predominately-white, middle class, conservative neighborhood and there were not many Asians or people of color growing up and was constantly made aware that I looked different by the other kids at school, who would try to provoke me with racial slurs. This was during the height of the Vietnam War, Asians were not seen in a positive light in America at the time. In school, I got into many fights, and was usually on the bad end of it. I realized I had to find an efficient way to defend myself. This was my initial motivation for me get into the martial arts.

 

I was always interested in the martial arts growing up ever since I saw Bruce Lee in The Green Hornet as a kid and the James Bond movies. To me, there was always something intangible about a martial artist with how they would carry themselves that always intrigued me, but could not figure out why. I would later find out it is about sculpting and training your body, mind, spirit, and soul to focus and commit to what you are doing at the very instant- be it martial arts or anything else you decide to do with your life.

I was visiting some of my family (who were refugees of the Vietnam war) living in France when I was 11 years old; one of my cousins, a black belt, encouraged me to train. When I got back, I read books and magazines on the martial arts and started to look for a place to train. Little did I know this would be a life long passion for me.

 

I trained in different styles because my mom could only afford introductory lessons that I would got for my birthday. In between lessons, I would actively seek people who trained to teach me what they knew- even if though they were not black belts. I was very hungry to learn anything from anyone who knew anything. After a while, the instructors (who were teaching me these introductory lessons) felt I was much too experienced and knew I was eager to learn, so they just snuck me into the regular classes until the owner asked me to start paying the regular monthly fees (which I couldn’t), so I had to leave. I later found a Tang Soo Do school where they let me help teach the kids class in exchange for lessons and eventually got my black belt with them.

 

After I got my black belt, I would go out and train with other styles and instructors expanding my knowledge and understanding of the martial arts. I competed on the national tournament circuit, became good friends, and trained with national champions like Keith Vitali and Stuart Quan, to name a few. The martial arts helped me in all areas of my life. It has also helped me understand, learn, and appreciate my Asian background and be proud of it.

Shiai Magazine: What truly motivated you to become a fight choreographer?

 

John KRENG: When my mom was pregnant with me, she had your typical cravings, instead of reading or singing to me, what she would religiously do was watch professional wrestling when it was on several times a week. I was an only child growing up and had only a few friends, so I had a very vivid imagination to keep myself occupied. I remember as a kid I would watch the TV show Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea and would pretend I was in the submarine that got hit by a torpedo by running and falling from couch to couch. I also pretended to be Burt Reynolds in the opening credits to the TV show Dan August by sliding down the school hallways when no one was around. So was it preordained that I would grow up to be a stunt coordinator? I don’t know… You tell me!?!?

 

Growing up, I would go to the theaters to see kung fu movies pretty almost every week from the age of 12 to well into my college years and beyond from the grind-houses to the Chinese run theaters. I remember feeling extremely invigorated and hyped up after leaving the theater. In 8^th grade, my media arts teacher, Mrs. Sherion Cosby, turned me onto Akira Kurosawa and his films. She made me watch Seven Samurai and write a report on it, as well as write a journal and keep track of all the movies I’ve seen. As a kid, I’ve seen Enter the Dragon 60 times and all of Bruce’s other films over 30 times in theatera. When I look back at it, the reason I initially went as a kid was so I could feel better about myself, because the hero on the big screen was an Asian that looked like me, validating me in some way to counter the racism in my psyche. But as I got older those films appealed more to my artistic and creative side. Seeing all those movies over the years was the foundation of my film education, which I feel eventually, led me to being a stunt coordinator and fight choreographer.

While watching those kung fu movies as a kid, I dreamed of being one of those kung fu heroes on screen, but I did not know what a fight choreographer was, let alone how to become one. At the time, I felt it was an impossible pipe dream, because Maryland was very “Un-Hollywood”- a pretty conservative place with no real creative industry happening there at the time. I felt directionless, because I knew nothing about the film industry or how it worked, but always strongly drawn to it.

 

When I moved to Los Angeles, I was a graphic designer, a professional stand up comedian for 14 years, an entertainment journalist, and a video game designer. I did things that were closely related to it but not the actual job itself. I got burned out with all those professions and always found solace by popping in a martial arts movie. My girlfriend at the time made me realize I was running away from my dreams. When she died of cancer and it made me realize how short and precious life was. So I got my head out of my ass and followed my dreams. That was when I decided to jump into it and I have not turned back since.

 

When I choreograph a fight scene, I would remember the audience reactions when I saw all those years in the Black and Chinese theaters always stuck with me, even to this day while I am choreographing a fight scene because they would be so vocal about what they saw on the screen. In the back of my mind, when I create an action scene, I think to myself, “What type of reaction will I get from the audience?” Now mind you, I do not always go for the “wow response” with the audience with every fight scene I put together because it’s a cheap reaction. Anyone can do it and when you do it all the time, the audience gets bored with it quickly. It’s much like going to an amusement park where every ride in the park gives you the same kind of experience. You have to mix it up and do different things in the fight to elicit different emotions and responses from the audience while telling a non-verbal story.

Shiai Magazine: As a martial artist and fight choreographer have you encountered African martial arts?

John KRENG: Not while working on films. I met a few people here and there at some tournaments when I was competing that practiced African styles of martial arts, but it was very rare. I always wanted to see more of it, but was not able to have a chance to see African martial arts to it’s fullest. I’m still waiting!

Shiai Magazine: Have you ever had the chance to travel in Africa?

John KRENG: No I have not, although I have always been intrigued with African culture.

 

Shiai Magazine: With your long experience in the martial arts, filmmaking and comedy can you mentions the names of Blacks you have worked with?

John KRENG: Well, I started stand up comedy with Martin Lawrence in Washington, DC. I would later be a regular performer at The Comedy Store and would see him there all the time. I had some great conversations with Richard Pryor who saw my act early on and gave me some very sound advice on where I needed to go with my comedy. Richard was a huge influence in my life and I tried to extract what he did with his comedy and apply it into my routine showing the audiences what it was like to grow up as an Asian-American. I was also schooled by Dave Tyree (not the football player) while at The Comedy Store, he shadowed me and critiqued my act after every show for a couple weeks every night when I first became a regular at the club. I have also worked and performed with comedians Eddie Griffin, Eddie Murphy, Robert Townsend, Tommy Davidson, Damon Wayans, Jamie Foxx, and George Wallace to name a few. Talking with these guys and having them break down your act was much like having a martial arts master dissecting your skills to make you a better artist. I also worked with Tai Mak on a Debbie Allen music video. One of my idols was filmmaker Gordon Parks. He was my definition of what a true modern Renaissance Man was. Unfortunately, he passed away several years ago and I will never get a chance to work with him.

Shiai Magazine: Tell us exactly what are the differences between a Hong Kong action martial arts movie with a Hollywood action martial arts movie, if there are any?

John KRENG: There are many differences between Asian and Western martial arts films where I can write a whole book with. Where do I start? So here goes..

 

When you compare western martial arts films to their Asian counterpart, there is a drastic difference in the depth of why the hero trains in the film. In Asia ,they tie martial arts more with the cultivation of one’s soul and spirit, although their original reason is usually based on revenge. Like in the movies Hero (Jet Li), Magnificent Butcher, and Prodigal Son, they use the common denominators of the art of calligraphy and the martial arts, because it is a connection to one’s soul and spirit. You hardly ever see something that deep here in the West where the lead character does not change that much from beginning to end. The martial arts in the West is used as an exotic wat to kick someone’s ass and not any deeper than that.

 

In the West, all fights follow the “rules of the brawl,” which has existed since the days of the silent movies. By that, I mean almost every technique thrown either connects or misses completely. Each blow is thrown to knockout the person with one blow, which is not smart or practical at all. The opponent rarely blocks an oncoming technique. They only use a limited amount of techniques and it get repetitious, which is why the fights are short and the strategy is fairly simple…if there are any. There is no real finesse involved because it will look “too martial arty.” Western fights are obsessed with techniques that display power and are based more on emotion rather than any type of strategy. Unfortunately, this is the Western concept of “real,” which in reality far from it. The only genre where the fights are creative and not repetitious is with slasher films, like Friday the 13^th and Nightmare on Elm Street. It would get really boring if they killed the victims the same exact way every time. Other film genres could learn a thing or two from them as far as creativity when non-verbal conflicts are concerned.

 

In Asia, the fights are generally much longer and more elaborate. Rhythm and timing is very important as well as a variety of techniques to not be repetitious. Strategy is very important as well as the techniques for each character that is uniquely individual to each character. The reason the fights are longer is because they treat a fight scenes much like a chess match, where strategy is very important- especially when they are even with their skills. The other advantage the Asians have with their films is they are able to draw upon thousands of years of the martial arts and how it was a major part of Asian history.

 

Let me give you an example. Let’s look at Bruce Lee’s Enter the Dragon and compare it to his other films. Way of the Dragon was filmed specifically for an Asian audience but Enter the Dragon was created specifically for a Western audience. Notice in Enter the Dragon, the fight scenes are fairly simple and are usually one hit knockdowns or knockouts and he had no opponent that was able to give him a hard time- no real obstacles to overcome. They created the maze of mirrors in the end to make Han that much more bigger than he was, but still did not challenge Bruce physically at all, nor did the fight with Oharra (Bob Wall)- it was a one-sided fight. It was fairly simple…he showed up and kick ass. There’s nothing wrong with that, but that’s pretty much a Western mentality and Bruce geared that film with the Western audience in mind. This movie was not his most successful in Asia because of that fact. The basic theme of a kung fu movie is about overcoming odds- much like a Rocky film, but using the techniques as a part of the story. Enter the Dragon was much more of a showcase film of his incredible abilities and screen presence.

 

When you look at the fight scene with Chuck Norris in Way of the Dragon had more tension and depth to the fight. With the non-verbal dialogue of the fight choreography there were obstacles he had to overcome giving the audience dramatic tension. With Norris, you thought in the beginning Bruce might not make it, because he was thoroughly getting his ass kicked by Norris. But he found his groove by being more fluid and used more of a natural and broken rhythm to take more control of the fight. In the end, when Bruce finally was forced to kill Norris, you saw the regret and sorrow that he had to consciously take a life, right before he broke his neck. Up to that point, most of the fights were lighter and some comedic, creating a contrast in the mood and intent of the fights.

 

In Asia, the art of Ching Gung is a strong part of martial arts folklore and actually something that really exists when you ask some people. This is what you might see in the martial arts films as flying or stepping in the air. Basically, Ching Gung has several different philosophies and beliefs. One of those beliefs has to do with your martial arts training and the cultivation of your spirit as you understand and become one with the elements of the universe around you. When you are able to be one with the universe and things around you, those universal elements around you assist you in moving around. A great example of a fight scene where one was in touch with the elements and one who is not is the opening fight scene in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, when Zhang Zi Yi stole the sword and was caught by the security guard. If you notice when they fought, there was a sequence where the security guard attacked her with a 3 section staff and she was able to divert the attack by stepping and pinning the weapon to the ground. The security guard tries to muscle it away from her and as she jumps away, the weapon hits the security guard in the head. That was an immediate sign to me that the security guard was not in touch with his surroundings (let alone the weapon, which was an extension of himself). So when Zhang Zi Yi started flying away onto the rooftop and the security guard could not follow her, it made complete sense to me why he could not fly.

 

Ching Gung is a hotly debated subject to Westerners when they watch martial arts films because they do not understand the mythology behind it. It takes them emotionally out of the picture because the filmmakers do not explain it to them. Unfortunately, they do not think about it because the Western audience is considered a secondary market to them and are primarily concerned about their local audience who already understand how and why they can fly. But in the West, many superheroes in the movies can fly and they really do not explain why they can do that either.

Shiai Magazine: What is the secret to be a good screen fighter? Must you be an expert in martial arts or sport combats?

John KRENG: No, you do not have to be an expert in the martial arts to be a good screen fighter. Look at Jackie Chan. He was not an expert or master in any type of martial art. He grew up training in the Chinese Opera, where the martial arts they learned was stylized for the stage and not for self-preservation purposes. I’m not saying he can’t take care of himself in a street situation, but the emphasis on why one trains is the result you get. If you train for self-defense or for tournaments, don’t expect to be a movie star overnight because the emphasis on why you train is much different. You would have to learn a completely new skill set for film fighting that can often times contradict what you already learned as a martial artist. One of the most difficult things a martial artist has to unlearn is to stylize a fight scene to work for the camera. What works for the camera does not necessarily work on real life or the dojo.

 

A good screen fighter has to be versatile these days, with a working understanding of several different styles that are not similar to one another. They also have to be a quick study when learning and remembering techniques for fight choreography, because in traditional martial arts classes it’s done by repetition. In a film, you do not have any time for that, you have to make your adjustments and get it down in a couple takes or else someone else is there to replace you.

 

We all have a learning arc. Look at Jet Li. He was a five time All China Wu Shu Champion and a living legend in China. If you look at his earlier films like the Shaolin Temple films (The Shaolin Temple, Kids from Shaolin, and Martial Arts of Shaolin) that were made in mainland China; his acting was not so strong. However, if you look at his later work in Hong Kong, he matured tremendously in screen fighting and has a wider and deeper acting range. Look at Bruce Lee’s fight choreography in the Green Hornet and compare it to his work on Enter The Dragon or Way of the Dragon. There’s a huge difference when it comes to his performance, the confidence, and clarity in his choreography, which was so individualized and made him so distinct from everyone else.

 

Fight choreography and screen fighting is an art and a science. In the West, it has been shrouded in mystery even people working in the entertainment industry do not fully understand or grasp it. They might have a general concept of it, but they don’t have a working knowledge of it because it is never taught to them in film school. The principles of shooting, editing, and choreographing fight and action scenes defies the rules taught to students for non-action scenes at film school. It might look really simple, but unless you have done it yourself, you really do not know how hard it can be. A screen fighter has to know where the camera is at all times and adjust their techniques and reactions to work for that specific angle. A good stuntman also has to consistently hit their marks with each take, while also being able to take direction from the director, DP, special effects (sometimes), and stunt coordinator to fulfill the needs of each department with the least amount of takes. They also have to have different ranges of reactions from big to subtle, to match the emotional tone for each fight scene. A stuntman is the one who has the real control of the fight scene, which is much like taking lead of the dance, but they have to make it look like they are not. Stunt people who can quickly make the adjustments in the least amount of takes, while consistently hitting their marks are the ones always in demand.

 

Another is timing and pacing. A choreographed fight scene has different type of timing than a real fight does. With a real fight, you are trying to lure an opponent into playing the fight with your game and timing in the least amount of time before they can catch on. With a choreographed fight, the timing is much different because it is a non-verbal dramatic scene that all the stunt players need to be in synch with each other. It’s not about doing the fight scene fast to get it over with quickly (like in a real fight), but milking the scene dramatically. It’s much like playing music or a dance- you let it flow- instead of playing the song as fast as you can. It is the emotions the stuntman displays before and after the techniques that makes the move dramatically effective for the audience because they have to emotionally connect with the action scene by feeling the effects of what is being done in the fight. But in a real fight, displaying your emotions will get your ass kicked.

 

When I started doing stunts, I had to learn on the set… and the first guy I had to fight on film was Jet Li! It was essentially a trial by fire, where if I didn’t make the cut, I simply would have been fired! Today, you have stunt schools to go to, which make it much easier for the potential stuntman to learn their craft without the unneeded pressure. But there are many things a stunt school cannot teach you that you have to pick up while working on a set. It’s still not something that anyone can simply learn in a class and make a career out of. There is also a lot of skills that need to be honed while you are on the job. The hard part of this business is once a stunt coordinator hires you, how you perform will determine if you will come back to work for them or not. It’s a tough business where you are always working with some type of injury on long and weird hours that can really affect your personal life. But those are some of the sacrifices you have to make to work in this business. It might sound really cool but it’s not glamorous at all.

 

What do you think are the qualities and requirements that make a successful fight choreographer?

Many people think fight choreography is all about putting together cool looking fight scenes. Well... to be honest, it is further from the truth and anyone can put together moves to dazzle the audience with something very flashy. I see this all the time with amateur fight choreographers posting their home videos online and even in big budgeted films made here in Hollywood too. This is a typical case of being “trapped in the technique” when they should be concentrating more on expressing the motivations and emotions of the characters with the technique in the fight. There is nothing wrong with using flashy techniques as long as the choreography is staying true to the characters and story. The definition of a typical dramatic fight scene for TV and film is the result of a culmination of scenes where the parties involved did not resolve the conflict civilly, resulting in a physical fight that escalates or stops the tension between the characters.

 

For me, a good solid fight choreographer understands movement as a means of communication of a story without dialogue to the audience. It’s like a moving painting or piece of artwork that is unique to that scene in the film. A fight scene also has a different purpose when they are written in the 1^st, 2^nd, and 3^rd acts of the script. You have to know the reason why the fight is in the scene and what led up to it so you can choreograph it with the correct tone. To have the director explain to you the purpose of the fight scene means you are not truly doing your job.

 

You have to know what techniques work for film, because not every technique will work effectively on film. You also have to know how to stylize techniques by altering them to make it work on film. Look what Steven Seagal in his first film, Above the Law. He took Aikido, an esoteric style that has no strikes and gave it a macho shot of testosterone by modifying the moves, giving it have a stronger cinematic impact, while not being overly flashy.

 

A fight choreographer should have a working knowledge of story structure. When choreographing a fight scene, you need to know if the fight is in the fist, second, or third act of the film because a fight scene has a different purpose for each act. You end up looking like an idiot if the director has to tell you why the fight is occurring for a particular scene. I’ve seen this happen many times and you just are looked at as a grunt or a hired hand as opposed to a contributing artist. A good fight choreographer knows story structure and is able to incorporate the fight scenes they are choreographing to the story. I took 2 years of screenwriting classes at UCLA Extension and won some screenwriting contests too. Essentially a fight choreographer constructs an action scene in the film much like a writer would with words, but instead they are doing it with movement and action.

 

A good fight choreographer tells a story with your fight scene. Like I said earlier, anyone can put together a fight scene and make it look cool. But more importantly… can you tell a nonverbal story with it? A good fight choreographer can create and escalate the dramatic tension while telling a non-verbal narrative between the opponents using only body language, facial expressions and fighting techniques. A fight scene is a mini story that serves a bigger story. Each technique and reaction to it has to advance the story while staying true to the characters, intention, motivation, and physicality. What separates the men from the boys with fight choreography is telling a non-verbal story with the fight scenes. There are a lot of boys out there. I’ve seen too many fight scenes that do not tell a story nor hold any dramatic tension and have to rely on close up camera moves and quick and fast editing to create the erratic emotion of the fight.

 

When a martial artist (who has no film choreography experience) is given the opportunity to choreograph a fight scene in a film, it usually ends up looking and feeling more like a demonstration than an actual cinematic fight. It lacks a genuine dramatic tension because they are “trapped by the techniques” of the choreography, instead of letting the characters express themselves through the techniques and the result is a discord between the story and the choreographed fight scene. I see this happen all the time. But it’s not the fault of the martial artist who was not truly qualified and lacks experience, but more the producer and director’s fault for hiring them. Their thinking is because they think hiring a real martial artist will add a more “realistic” element to the action. If that’s true then why don’t they hire a real serial killer to play the part of a killer in a film to add realism to the role. Sounds ridiculous? Hopefully you get my point??

 

Learning and experimenting with what works in fight choreography has gotten so much easier these days with the introduction of digital video cameras and editing software for consumer use. So there really is no excuse for anyone not to go out there to learn and experiment on their own and learn what angles to shoot at and when to edit and cut. The trick is not to fall in love with what you have choreographed and performed because you cannot grow from it if you do. My textbook is one of the first to explain the art and theory of fight choreography in detail.

 

Shiai Magazine: Many international film productions recruit Asians to be fight choreographer and fight director, why so? Is it because martial arts are part of their culture, knowing that every race and people have their own form of fighting?

John KRENG: That is part of it, but to make that type of judgment with every Asian fight choreographer would not be fair and also stereotypical, because not every single fight choreographer in Asia is superior than the ones in the West. Many of the fight choreographers from Hong Kong that have the experience and honed it down to an art form right now. This is because Kung Fu and Wu Xia genres are alive and well in Asia and it give the fight choreographers a lot of practice. There are a lot of TV shows, movies, and soap operas that use martial arts, so they can hone their craft there.

 

But I have to say, there is also a lot of blind prejudice with Western producers/directors who do not understand the process of putting together a great fight scene. Usually a stunt coordinator/fight choreographer in the West is usually never given the time they need to craft a detailed fight scene like they would in Asia. If you are lucky (depending on how big the the fight scene is), you might be given a week to put together and rehearse a fight scene. But usually, you are given only a few days or hours to put together a fight scene… and mind you, this is for an action themed TV show or film! I was working on a film and was told at the last minute to put together a fight scene. I had to choreograph it in 10 minutes and shot it in 2 takes because the crew was leaving! But the Hong Kong choreographers demanded the producers give them more time to choreograph their fights when working in the U.S. For example-Yuen Woo Ping for The Matrix, who had 3-6 months to train the principal actors and stunt people. So if you were given 6 months to train them, you are definitely expected have some fight scenes no matter where you are from!! So the myth was created that the Hong Kong choreographers are better than the US choreographers. Sure they put together some great stuff and that’s because they have more creative control over what the final product looks like. Please mind you, I am not taking anything away from Yuen Woo Ping’s or any Hong Kong fight director’s abilities at all. I truly admire them for what they have done and still are my heroes for the excellent work they have done.

 

But the truth of the matter is, Western fight choreographers are usually never given the creative freedom and time to put together what they feel would look great on film. This is because we do not have the power on the set to tell the DP (Director of Photography) where to place the camera and tell the editor where to make the cuts. Some people do have that clout, but many do not. We can only suggest what they should do and if the DP and Editor are not good with fight scenes, then you are in big trouble and the fight scene often ends up looking like crap! The Hong Kong Fight Directors have complete creative and technical freedom and control over what they do, but in the West, we have our hands tied, because we do not have any technical control over what is being shot and edited.

 

I truly feel that if Ong Bak was shot by US crew and backed by a big studio; the fight choreographer would not have creative control and it would not have the same effect on audiences and be the international cult film that it is now. That’s because you would not have the long shots to see the action fully or the rhythmical flow in editing. Instead, the camera shots would get in so tight and close, you would not be able to see the action fully, and the audience would have to imagine what it looked like in their heads, instead of ACTUALLY witnessing it and appreciating Tony Jaa’s skills. The editing would probably look so chaotic and haphazard that it really would not make any sense, creating a false and processed emotion that would not get a strong reaction from the audience. The western way of filming and editing (I just described) used to be a trick used only for actors who really could not do the action required for the scene. Unfortunately, now it’s being used on everyone...including actors who can do their action on film. This is a real travesty and an artistic shame. This practice is not just done with fight scenes, but with all types of movement on film including dance. The reason they do this practice now is to get the audience up close to the action as if you were there yourself. The problem with this flawed theory is the camera does not have peripheral any vision and lacks depth perception like a normal set of eyes would have. Besides our eyes do not shake like an epileptic every time we move around. This is a great example of what I said earlier with the “brawl mentality” in the West, because to them it is not about the technique, but rather more about the emotion, and it destroys any type of finesse or grace an actor or stunt performer has on screen. The Editors and DP’s in the West are calling way too much attention to themselves and taking away from the physical performance of the actors in the action scenes. It’s as if they were saying, “Hey, look at me and the cool thing that I am doing!”

 

Besides the issues I have just mentioned, Hollywood has become too co-dependent on computer special effects. The audience innately knows when an actor is on a ledge only 5 feet off the ground in a green screen studio (only to be painted into the scene later) as opposed to really being up 30 stories high because of their body language. We carry ourselves differently and an actor can only do so much to recreate that experience. This applies directly to stunts because the actor’s body language does not match the “simulated situation” at hand. Because of this, the audience is not moved by the performance and are pretty skeptical because of the computer effects, knowing it’s just an animated moving painting and not the actor performing the actual move. Unfortunately we’ve painted ourselves into a corner that we have to get ourselves out of. Action films have turned into a soulless amusement park ride that you immediately forget about as soon as you leave the theaters.

 

Shiai Magazine: Do you believe that any form of martial arts or fighting systems can be choreographed in a movie especially African Martial arts in which in globes different styles like Capoeria, African wrestling, use of African weapons like Zulu stick fighting, African dancing, African American street fighting, African Diaspora martial arts and several fighting systems created by Blacks around the world?

John KRENG: Of course. I used to think that there were only certain martial arts that would look good on film. But when Steven Seagal took Aikido and stylized it for film in his debut film Above the Law, I was impressed. He took a style that had not real strikes but used the opponent’s energy and momentum to redirect it back to them AND making it work on film! It just blew me away. An experienced fight choreographer can make almost any style look effective on film, yet still keep the style’s individuality without making it look like everything else. That is more difficult than it seems.

 

Shiai Magazine: Good number of martial arts movie fans have the impression that people don’t make any more good martial arts movies. Is it because there is more money in the production, special effects, stunt doubles, famous actors who don’t practices martial arts, poor storyline or just bad filming and editing?

John KRENG: Well the answer is any and all of the above. When you look at the bigger picture there are more bad movies out there than there are good ones in all genres of film, not just martial arts movies. But it is more obvious with martial arts and action films because of the lame stories that justify the action. And when the story, acting, and action is weak, it easily gets the tag of a lame genre by the audience. It used to be a time when action films were given to actors who can’t act. But that changed in the late 80’s and early 90’s when “real actors” began starring in action films, like Mel Gibson starring in Lethal Weapon.

 

From my experience and what I have seen, when it comes to bad films, it starts from the top and trickles itself on the way down to the director, and actors. In the West, the studio executives, producer, and director are the ones who hold the vision and the integrity of the movie. A lot of martial arts films here are used as a “gimmick” or an exotic way to beat someone up or kill them and usually nothing deeper than that. The lead character does not change that much from beginning to end, whereas in the kung fu movie genre in Asia, the lead character makes a drastic change. He actually transforms from a meek underdog into a valiant hero. When you compare western martial arts films to Asian ones, there is a drastic difference in the depth of why they train. In Asia they tie martial arts more with the cultivation of one’s soul and spirit. Like in the movies Hero, Magnificent Butcher, and Prodigal Son, they use the common denominators of the art of calligraphy and the martial arts to show the cultivation of a person’s soul and spirit. You hardly ever see anything that remotely deep here. The martial arts movie genre in the West has not changed much since the 70’s when it first started. There needs to be better stories and not weak and cheap excuses to justify the action. This goes for big and small budget features.

 

Unfortunately, martial arts films have been seen in a bad light since the 70’s because of the insane demand by Western distributors during the kung fu boom during the Bruce Lee era. It was during that time where many films took a week or several days to film… and it showed. The choreography was pretty bad and the story lines were pretty primitive based on simple revenge. It was poor all around and there were too many of those films, outnumbering the good ones, which took time to create and produce. But to audiences were so hungry to see kung fu movies they would go see anything that had martial arts in it, but they got burned often, so the genre carried that stigma with it for the longest time. But there were lots of very good ones released during those days like the 36^th Chamber of Shaolin (aka The Master Killer), Secret Rivals, King Boxer (aka Five Fingers of Death), and of course Bruce Lee’s movies. But I think the martial arts movie has changed with The Matrix, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, Fearless, and Hero which bring in elements from other genres and show the craft of filmmaking. CTHD became an art house favorite and drew in that crowd, along with being the critics favorite, so I feel martial arts films has remodeled itself and has gotten popular again. But the audience has gotten much more sophisticated now and won’t just go to see anything that has martial arts in it anymore. There has to be a story and good actors- not just martial artists/athletes who can’t act.

 

Shiai Magazine: To be honest what makes a martial arts film actor to have the charisma and potential in front of the camera such as martial arts film icons like Bruce Lee, Jim Kelly, Jackie Chan, Jet Li, Billy Blanks, Jean Claude Van Damme, Donnie Yen, Tony Jaa and others? Do you think that Africans can also make it?

John KRENG: Of course. Charisma does not see the color of ones skin or ethnicity. Look at the diverse names you mentioned. I feel charisma is something that comes from within a person’s soul and spirit and able to bring it up on cue when the cameras roll. I have seen many gifted martial artists who technically can blow away many people you see on film, but they unfortunately have no charisma or stage presence. What I noticed with all the people you mentioned in this question is that they have done films where they have been able to display their martial arts skills at some point without the aid of special effects. That is something that producers and directors tend to overlook because in Hollywood was have become so co-dependent on special effects these days. But believe it or not, some actors have so much charisma, they are able to hide the inabilities to fight on camera. If you do not believe me, look at the world of professional wrestling. There are some superstars who are charismatic and a huge draw but cannot wrestle, but they yet are popular because of their stage presence. Ironic, huh?

Shiai Magazine: If you are given the chance to make or participate in a martial arts movie in Africa, will you do it?

John KRENG: If the story was solid and had universal appeal, along with a decent budget and a great stunt team and it was worth my time there… sure.

Shiai Magazine: As an experienced martial artist and fight choreographer, what is the differences between a street fight, competition and fight scene in a movie?

John KRENG: They all have a different purpose for existing. A street fight comes from self-preservation, where you are usually fighting for your life. The faster the better. A competition is a sport where you are in a friendly match for points or an eventual reward. A fight scene is choreographed for entertainment purposes that serve a story. A fight or action scene is much like a non-verbal story told within a story.

Shiai Magazine: Do you have any future projects in which you will like to talk about?

I took 3 years off to write the textbook, Fight Choreography: The Art of Non Verbal Dialogue, which is an eternity in this business, because if you are not working, you must either be dead or retired. So I have been stunt coordinating on various projects to let people know I am back. I have also began to do audio commentaries and direct special features for action films released on DVD/Blu-ray.

In-between films, I have also started teaching fight choreography workshops for potential up and coming stuntmen and also lecturing at colleges that have a film department teaching them fight theory and how to shoot action scenes. I have realized through my experiences that in most film schools they do not teach their students anything about how to put together an action sequence. I find it very rewarding to lecture to students about how to put together and shoot action. It helps them prepare for a professional life outside of college and it gives them a step up from the other students.

Shiai Magazine: Surely you might be aware of the two African martial arts film projects “The Way” by Ray Muhammad starring Khalil MAASI which will be filmed in the United States and also “Money bag” starring Joe ATEBA an Aurelien Henry OBAMA film which will be filmed in Cameroon. Can you give them tips to make African martial arts fascinating in entertainment industry?

John KRENG: A martial arts good film has to have a solid story and compelling characters just like any other genre. The action has to be an integral part of the story. The more interesting the story is, the more the audience will get into the action, only if it is strongly justified by the storyline. The techniques choreographed has to be a unique extension of the character’s personality and emotions at that moment that is different from the other characters to create a visual contrast and does not get repetitious. The fights also have to build and get more complex and better as the story progresses. You can very easily let the audience down emotionally if the first fight scene is stronger than the final fight scene and becomes anti-climactic.

 

If you decide to make it a showcase film that cinematically displays your countries martial art, it better be f- - -ing damn good! You really have to be technical and know your camera angles that makes all the techniques look impressive and know where to edit them to keep the kinetic energy of the fight scene moving along. You also have to know how to stylize all the moves to make it look effective onscreen. A good example of is the Thai movie Ong Bak, starring Tony Jaa, where they showcase the Thai arts- Muay Thai, Muay Boran, and Krabi Krabong. But in stylizing the moves for film, they also combined elements of Tae Kwon Do, Wu Shu, gymnastics, and free-running, to name a few to make it more interesting. However, if you do that, you will continuously have out do yourself each time you make a film. I felt Ong Bak was very well done, but the follow up to it, Tom Yung Gong was not as strong because they did not have the time.

 

The problem I see with martial artists, as storytellers, tend to get excessively preachy about what they do when they get a chance to show what they do on film. I can understand it when you teach your art to a student, but it is different on film and there needs to be a healthy balance between entertainment and information about your art. If the information about your art weighs down the story, you need to cut it. If you are preaching to your audience about your art, take it to the dojo and leave it out of the film. Showing the beauty of the culture along with the martial art, intricately weaved in a compelling story that is honest and sincere without being preachy is what works.

 

I also see a lot of beginning and novice fight choreographers easily fall in love with what they do and cannot be critical about their work. It’s easy to get caught up in all the energy with all the people involved when putting together a fight scene, while you are the one who has creative control in what moves stay in or go out. Try to get past the excitement and find that particular scene’s individual groove or voice.

Shiai Magazine: Certainly losing your father at very early age in your life, you had to struggle to succeed in life and make certain decisions become a reality? What advise can you give to African child who wants to fulfil his dream in life although the hardship and difficulties?

John KRENG: Everyone has some kind of setback or handicap in our lives be it mentally, emotionally, and/or physically in your life to deal with and overcome- otherwise you are not human or in complete denial. I feel it is through those experiences that we overcome that makes us stronger and more insightful people. I realized at an early age that I was on my own and I had to figure things out on my own because my mother did not understand Western culture and was in survival mode- having to work three jobs to put food on the table and a roof over our heads.

 

Being the child of a single mother, I grew up learning that women are strong in their own right. I would see first hand how men would try to devalue a woman’s pride and spirit but somehow persevere. Women display strength much differently than men. I see a lot of men who are not aware, ignore, or disrespect a woman’s strength, because they feel it is a threat to their own masculinity or simply do not know what to do with it. It’s pretty Neanderthal in thinking when you think about it.

 

Growing up without a father, I was always looking for male mentor figures growing up, so being in the martial arts was the perfect place for me to find them. I was very fortunate to have had many good male instructors who gave me a great foundation not only on how to be a man, but more importantly, how to be a good person and to have the courage to follow my dreams in life. Training in the martial arts kept my idle mind and restless spirit out of trouble and gave me a purpose in life and a framework on how to deal with life’s issues. Bruce Lee was a huge role model for me growing up. I would read anything and everything on him, while reading and studying his approach to the martial arts and in life. If you look at what he achieved in his 32 years on this earth, it’s pretty amazing.

 

Growing up I definitely had an “ax to grind” and felt like everyone in life owed me something in life, but I realized where you are currently is based on the decisions and actions you make or don’t make. I learned through the martial arts is that we create our own reality and no longer wanted to be a victim of life, but manifest a hero attitude and step up. We choose to be in pain or by happy, so your attitude and view on life has a lot to do with where you end up taking your life and what you do with it. Everything around you is an aspect of yourself and how you think. You have to mentally and emotionally step out of where you are to see yourself objectively in order to make a change in order to break away from the conceptions of how others like to label and limit you.

 

Shiai Magazine: What do you think of this online African Martial Arts Magazine which tries to bring Africa and martial arts together?

John KRENG: I think it’s a great idea and it needs to be known to other martial artists all over the world that you are out there promoting the African martial arts. Unfortunately, to the general public, when they hear the word “martial arts,” they immediately think of the Asian form of combative arts. Every culture has its own form of martial arts that is uniquely theirs.

Shiai Magazine: Any last words for our readers?

John KRENG: If you want to learn more about fight choreography, please pick up a copy of my textbook, FIGHT CHOREOGRAPHY: THE ART OF NON-VERBAL DIALOGUE (sorry for the shameless plug). Again… follow your bliss in life, no matter how stupid others may think it may be. It’s your life and at the end of the day and you eventually have to answer to yourself when you hit the bed at night.

 

Shiai Magazine: We thank you John KRENG in accepting our interview, we hope to see you soon in my beautiful country Cameroon “Africa in miniature”, and God bless you and your family.

John KRENG: Thank you. I wish the same for you and your family. It would be an honor and a pleasure to visit your beautiful country someday and hopefully experience some training with your country’s martial art. Thank you for giving me the time and space to express my thoughts and experiences, Mr. Obama.